One thing you can be sure of, if Christians get annoyed these days they will start a facebook group!!
“Join this protest page if you want the Christian voice to be heard against Robbie Williams’ blasphemous new song!” it says
Last week i poked fun at the need for a group to clarify that Nick Griffin of the BNP did “not speak for Christians.” Is this the new thing we need to do? Start a group, invite your friends and then what? Seriously, you have joined the group and what happens next?
Publicly you are seen to have joined a “tribe” who all agree on something but the bigger picture is that nobody gives a monkeys and nobody will pay a blind bit of notice to it! Sure, you have all patted each other on the back as you unite to protest against Robbie’s song but which of you really care about the guy, or his soul?
I know i have ranted on about this before but i a want to suggest that many of the people who join groups like this are fundamentalist neat-nicks who just need to be in a gang of like-minded folks. They have not thought about what Robbie may be trying to say in the song, they have not considered his other lyrics that indicate a longing for God and a spiritual desire for something else in his life. Instead they “protest” and “condemn” and “judge.”
In the clip of John Piper i posted before this one he refers to the ‘fake, go to-church, evangelical, nominal worldly christian that makes the statistics.’ I strongly believe that Facebook is giving those people another platform to hide behind, as we all join groups and voice our theology in protest of things publicly, in text, online for all to see! A ‘brother’ or ‘sister’ agrees with you, or “likes” your status and you feel good, thats a pat on the back, an affirmation of your goodness!
I have done it, you have done it but are we still the “worldly christians’ Piper speaks of? I do not mind a healthy and amicable discussion about something and i even do not mind being corrected if i am wrong but this is something else!
Your protest group isn’t worth the keys on this keyboard. It would mean nothing to you if Robbie Williams died tonight and was lost for all eternity! Your thoughts would still be on his song that offended you so much.
I sometimes wonder why i even offer any reaction to this kind of B.S …………..
Heres an idea, what say all us Christians take 5 seconds and pray for Robbie Williams instead of condemning him?
Solid blog post Ally. These fb groups are bewildering.
I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you on this (I know! I must have a fever or summat!
)
I hate this kind of behaviour, where people feel the need to find safety in numbers. As you know, I’m not a huge fan of the song, but only because it saddens me that someone feels that way about Someone who could deliver them from so much heartache. He’s a searcher, that Robbie.
We NEED to pray for those in the public eye – people listen to them, they are more visible, a bigger target for Satan to attack, and for the most part, those who seek fame have been at the tail end of dysfunction. And this goes for Christians as well. Nobody really cares for the celebs, but believers should – we’re mandated to, regardless of who people are.
*My disclaimer is that I’m a signed up pray-er for the Hollywood Prayer Network*
This kind of thing has been on my mind quite a bit recently, after seeing William Crawley’s documentary. It seems many people have been turned off or left Christ because they had questions and felt that they weren’t allowed to question and chew over what we believe, and we have to just accept it blindly.
But I think we need to question in order to gain greater understanding, but Christians by and large (especially in NI) automatically dismiss and label a pagan, heathen, heretic, anyone who dares to question.
If people didn’t question, the reformation wouldn’t have happened.
I haven’t heard the song yet..
And FLIPPING AMEN to Conner!
Graeme, id love to hear your thoughts, the video is on youtube, song is called Bodies
i’m not too sure where Robbies thoughts are.
I’ll stand with the Apostle Paul on this one and say that whether in truth or pretence, “Christ is proclaimed, and in that i rejoice.” (Phil 1:18) No matter how weak that proclomation may be!
I know it goes off in a direction i would rather it didn’t toward the end, but what do we expect? It seems confusing, but hey it is Robbie Williams we’re discussing. . .
Well said ally
i don’t think you need to know what I think about Robbie after my blog and sermon on it! Just for clarification – His song features elements and questions that mirror those of the prophets found in the Old Testament. Honest raw emotive questioning which we pray brings him to a place where truth reigns ………. something a lot of pharisees or ‘facebookgroupstarters’ can’t handle …….
yeah robbie’s song intrigues me. think were all reading a lot into it but it just seems like a load of questions. the reflection/perfection lyric is such an honest and raw and relevant cry.
but on another note, i did join the ‘nick griffin doesn’t speak for christians’ facebook group. and happy to. not hiding behind anything but keen to stand beside the fact that he doesn’t speak for me. i’ll say that online or in person.
My thoughts as in an interpretation if the song..?? It sounds confused to be honest rather than searching or seeking.. The reason I said AMEN to Conner is because I think it may be the most intelligent thing I have ever heard anyone say.. EVER.. With the exception of some things Gareth McFadden has said.. Perhaps I exaggerate slightly.. Perhaps it’s just the thing I most wanted SOMEONE to say!
The problem is people getting offended by things. Christians shouldn’t get offended.. A biblical back-up for that is I guess that we should be self-controlled and not ruled by our passions.. Or that we should be able to give REASONS for the hope that is in us.. If we had REASONS for the hope that was in us there’d be no need to be offended..
Which brings me back to what Conner said.. You can’t arrive at a REASONABLE conclusion without asking any QUESTIONS!
QUESTION:- How did Jesus contrive to die and come back to life again?
QUESTION:- Did Jesus really die and come back to life again?
These are fundamental questions that people must ask.
QUESTION:- Why do stories in Genesis bear a striking resemblance to other ancient near eastern mythology?
QUESTION:- Did we evolve from monkeys?
I think that rather than seeking answers to these questions Christians hide behind being offended by them instead of learning a bit about ancient near eastern mythology or evolution and attempting to answer these questions and still give a REASON for the hope that is in them.
For the record I think that the answers to my last 2 questions matter little if the answer to whether or not Jesus died and came back to life again is “Yes”. Of course we could all write books like some annoying theologians have done entitled “Did Adam have a belly button and 101 other bloody ridiculous and pointless childish questions that distract the attention from the true point of the Genesis story.”
Gareth once showed a video in church of Richard Dawkins accusing the religious of being offended because it was the only weapon we had as TRUTH was on his side.. I’m afraid in his first point he may have been right but he need not have been.. And in the second we know he was very wrong..
Were we offended by RD.. I wasn’t.. Wouldn’t that just prove his point.
Offense is a lazy option and it may also stem not from devotion to God but from our own wounded pride. Wisdom does not get offended. God is quite capable of looking after himself without us all leaping to his defense.
There are of course times when we should defend the gospel.. from false teachers and false prophets.. Is RW one of these? Does he profess to hold any kind of truth whatsoever? No! From the song we get confusion and doubt..
Anyway.. Maybe RW’s song will get people thinkn..?? Trying to work out what he’s trying to say and maybe even (and here’s a novelty) reading the bible!!
I hope I have stressed that far enough. Lol!
*like*
i do agree full heartedly that questions bring answers but the danger of today is that an increasing number of people, e.g Bell who is a great proponent of this, who specifically asks questions and then states he doesnt want answers because that would be dogma or some rubbish like that! that just causes confusion with no resolution.
as for robbie williams i just think its a naff song to be honest that follows green day in intentionally poking at Christian ideas. but the thing that was refreshing in this post was to pray for them. a while ago i tried to regularly pray for dawkins but alas i wasnt disciplined enough. if these types of songs were turned into an earnest quest for God instead of postmodern pseudospirituality which hammers on at superficial cliches then good.
i wonder, if he did become a Christian, would the critical christians grab hold of their new celebrity who they had so heavily criticised? a lot are fickle.
maybe im a bit harsh.
I agree with Drew.. What’s the point of asking a question if you don’t want an answer.. Although when did Bell say that?
Here’s a thought though.. When two Christians disagree on some theological point when is it a legitimate disagreement and at which point does one of them become a heretic..?? Is the “prosperity gospel” heresy.. I would say yes.. Is rob bell a heretic.. I don’t pretend to know enough about him to know..
Naff song.. Maybe.. Pseudospirituality.. Maybe.. Confused.. I think definitely. I think RW’s mum is a Christian
He said it in Velvet Elvis. I remember being shocked lol.
If he is truely looking then thatd be fantastic and I do truely hope that he finds God.
I think it becomes heresy when you disagree over the fundamentals eg salvation through Christ alone. issues of predestination etc are secondary issues and should never be used to call somebody a heretic!
if you believe the basics then it should all be love and peace, to be cheesy lol.
I get the impression that Bell says a lot of things.. I pretty much think he’s a nutter..
How the heck did this get onto Rob “bleeding” Bell? Flip me!! stay on topic guys!!
I was thinking about the contrast between what Piper was pointing to in your last post – suffering children in Serbia – with Facebook pages against Robbie’s song. And thought to myself: Why do people care more about the words of a fleeting song etc… than suffering children in Serbia.
The song will fade into the background in a few months (hopefully
) but the children in Serbia will still be suffering…
PS: I haven’t heard the song yet either.
You know i think John has just pointed out something staggering.
John, absolutely, thanks for pointing this out
Amen! and well said, i actually think the song is good as do agree that Robbie is and has been searching for years for God, and as christian we set a very bad example of Jesus by protestest about his song, Let all agrree and pray for his precious soul and just imagine what God could do if Robbie Williams was a christian!
I have listened to the song and think like most, that RW is confused and questioning. He’s been this way for years, though – ‘Jesus in a camper van’ is a prime example. As an adult Christian, I’ve often looked back on my life (mostly my childhood) and wished I had asked more questions – like, why do we post borders of animals going onto the ark 2×2 on young childrens walls, when just after that God destroyed the earth?! I mean, if we are going to put up something to try and be positive, go with the rainbow!!!! I digress… I strongly believe that that as a Christian, feeling offended is a sin (cause we should know better), so I agree with everyone who says we should be praying for RW (who obviously doesn’t know yet) – but good on him for asking the tough questions. Reminds me of the Bereans in Acts who searched the scriptures to make sure it was so… maybe we should be doing more of that asking and searching.
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